This month, Ashley and Rachel sat down together to discuss what it's like living under social distancing, what's stressful, what's strange, and how to cope with everything the world is collectively experiencing during this pandemic.
We'd love to hear from you - what are your coping mechanisms? How are you handling the new (or existing) stressors in your life?
Episode Transcript
Ashley Pratt: Hi, and welcome to this episode of the Women in Foreign Policy podcast. This month, we are grappling with the exact same thing everyone else who's listening to this is grappling with. We are both inside. We are both living our lives over computer screens and phone screens, and trying to respect the guidance of public health officials. And we wanted to do an episode this month that recognized that everyone's reality is a little bit off kilter right now, and that we're all having some experiences that are unusual and stressful and can be putting your life under all kinds of strain. To that end, I have my colleague Rachel here with me and she and I are going to talk a little bit about what the past six or so weeks have been like for us. We'll talk about some feelings. You've been struggling with coping mechanisms we've been using, what we feel like is weird or different about the way we're going through this and the ways that that might be unique, and some resources for learning and self care that we want to offer up to the podcast community. So Rachel, why don't you introduce yourself?
Rachel Dooley: Hi, my name is Rachel Dooley. I'm the Assistant Producer for the podcast. And right now I'm based in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in the US.
Ashley: Great, thank you. And longtime listeners will remember this, but it's possible. I haven't said it in a while. My name is Ashley Pratt, and I am based in Washington DC in the US. So to get started this week, and honestly, Rachel and I just sat down and kind of thought like, what do we want to talk about? What has been stressing us out? What have we been doing to combat that stress? And so, I want to start by talking about the things that we have been struggling with, and we phrased these as feelings. Because I think that for me, emotion-first language helps. But you can also phrase these as externalities, as things that are happening to you that are causing things within your emotions and your mental health state. Rachel, do you want to talk a little bit about things that you raise?
Rachel: Yeah, sure. So I think one thing that stresses a lot of people out and something that really gets me particularly is not really having a timeline for this virus and the pandemic and the toll it will take. So, when things first started happening, you know, to me, it seemed this will be over in two weeks a month, and I kind of extended my timeline as things got worse, and only in the past few weeks has really taken a toll on me that there really isn't going to be an end date. The pandemic will ultimately shift things and impact us for years to come and lots of different ways and there's not really a way to say what that will look like, and when a feeling of normalcy will return. And as someone who's very much a planner, I’m kind of struggling with how to build a timeline without dates on when I can return to what I view as my normal life is very difficult for me, I would say that that causes the most amount of anxiety. And what I think about the most when I'm reading the news, or when I'm trying to comprehend what's happening.
Ashley: So something that I have been struggling with is definitely the notion that like, I am also like you a planner, and I have all these plans that I put in place, you know, in a month, or even a year before we knew this was going to be an issue. And so now I'm kind of in this limbo, and like, can I even expect to do the things that I plan to do in three or six or nine months? Like, when can I start planning for the future again, and I think that that is kind of an underappreciated aspect of all of this.
Rachel: Something else that is really difficult for me is talking to my friends about it. I am a journalist in my day to day job and so I'm really up on how things are moving along and that kind of thing. I also am someone that just follows news closely in my personal time, and I have lots of friends that aren't and there's no reason that that's a bad thing, but then kind of struggling to bridge the gap of how to talk to them, especially a lot of my friends who are still making plans for June or even May, whereas I really view that as out of the question at this point. And so kind of bridging the gap in the way I speak to my friends and feeling a lot of stress when I talk to them and feeling like I should be the one illuminating them on different topics, especially my friends that complain more than others about the difficulties they face. I view myself as very fortunate and a lot of people in my personal circle as very fortunate in their quarantine scenario, very cushy, if you will. And so then to hear them complain is very difficult for me because they don't think their views are not valid, but it rings very vain and it's hard for me to reconcile both of those.
Ashley: I think that's super valid. I kind of have two opposing feelings here. One is, I also feel like I'm missing out on some, like essential parts of my life that I can't get back where I'm like, okay, like, I only get to do this spring of 2021. I do feel some real anger that this is what it looks like. And I think that one of the things that's important is like sitting with and recognizing that anger and acknowledging it and not sort of trying to banish it because we feel guilty for it. I also think that I feel a lot of guilt over how comparatively easy my current situation is compared to like the suffering of other people, people who are unemployed, people who are furloughed, people who are disabled and health bound. And for them, this is kind of just what reality is. And like, maybe we haven't been listening to those people enough in the past. And then there's kind of a third point to that triangle, where I'm also like you, Rachel, like frustrated at people who are so willing to minimize the risks that were that we're living under or the sacrifices that are involved. And I think like, if people could both acknowledge the very real risks that exist, and also acknowledge that, like, it's really unpleasant to have to live our lives in this way. Like, I think somewhere in there, there's a balance where we can all feel like our feelings are heard and acknowledged and validated without having to minimize anyone or feel like anger or frustration at other people in the same way.
Rachel: Yeah, a lot of the friendships I have have been tested especially and even relationships, on friendships, relationships with my parents, how seriously I'm watching them taking it. And just kind of understanding that the processing for everyone is a bit different. And then being sensitive to that, but also forward in my thoughts that’s backed by public health official warnings and that type of thing.
Ashley: For sure. I know that we both had some anxieties that we wanted to talk about, do you want to lead off with yours?
Rachel: Yeah, so in my current living situation I live with my boyfriend. And both of us have been very fortunate to continue our jobs and we have been able to continue them from home. But he is a much calmer person, he is not very anxious in a day to day sense. And so his anxiety over the pandemic has remained very similar to his reaction for much of the rest of his life. And he's concerned, you know, but he doesn't break down crying in ways that can happen to me, when I think about things for too long, or, you know, he doesn't come close, I come much closer to panic attacks and that kind of thing when I think about this type of thing for too long, whereas the same is not to be said for him. And so to work that out between the two of us has been much harder in a situation like this, because we're together all the time. And a lot of these emotions come in waves. So whereas for me, I have good days and bad days for him, it really feels consistent. Or maybe it is in waves, but presents itself differently than mine. Mine is worn on my sleeve. So it feels to me and his anxiety presents itself differently. And so kind of these close quarters have exacerbated differences that have always been there we have both always known about, but they force us to confront them every day, constantly in a way that we've not had to before.
Ashley: This is a personal time, like, I think everyone is just being a little bit more real and a little bit more human with each other. And actually, like, if we get to take things out of this weird period of global history, I would love to take that and just like, keep that as we move back into something that resembles normalcy, because I love how people are just being so like, acknowledging other people as humans with all of the like attendant complications that come along with that.
Rachel: I agree. I’m seeing a lot of funny emails being like, I can't deal with this today, just being so much more forward in the workplace or maybe professionally than you would have or obviously your kids showing up on a zoom call in an unexpected a way that people just have to deal with now and and not only deal with but also understand when you're on the receiving end of it.
Ashley: Yeah, so you have this sort of very internal, very homebound anxiety thing that you have going on. Whereas like, I live with a roommate, and we've actually been getting on like fairly well. But for me, most of my anxiety is actually sort of generated because I feel a lot of anxiety over the things that I can't control, which is really silly, because there are things I can't control sort of definitionally. And the things that are really keeping me up at night or giving me sort of the most anxiety I felt physically, are things that I can't control because they're the actions of like government or international bodies. And I can't control what my city government does. I can't control what my national government does. I can't control the government of the states that touch me. I can't control you know, what the WHO, or what Italy or France or the UK or India does. Like I don't have any control over any of these things that are materially going to affect me, my neighborhood, my city, I can't fix the things that I feel like I know how to fix. And I also can't, even if I don't know how to fix them, there are people that I'm sure are not helping, and I can't fix that either.
Rachel: Yeah, I've taken a lot of solace in remembering that the government is so large in the U.S. and around the world, but in the U.S. just understanding that there are so many public officials that go into making decisions, but yet I only see a couple of them on on my TV or in my newspapers, that kind of thing. I hold on to hope that, you know, one person has brought up the concerns that I've thought about or the concerns that my mom has thought about or something to that effect. You know, there's at least one person in this humongous government body that is saying to their superior the things that I'm thinking at home. One thing in particular, that's really difficult about this situation. I have a younger sister who is living in Australia. And when she made the decision, or I'm sorry, when the State Department made the announcement that asked all U.S. citizens to return to the country or prepare to stay where they are for an indefinite period of time she decided to stay. She's there on a Work- Holiday Visa. So she's a very impermanent resident very much so and she is having trouble finding work. So she's moved to a remote part of the country working on a farm that's quite labor intensive. You know, 90 degree weather every day and she's doing farm work in the middle of the day, in a really small town with a comparatively small healthcare system as well or local healthcare system. And I feel a lot of anxiety about all the different factors that go into that. If she were to get sick, she's in a small town and it would be difficult to get to her. It'd be difficult for her to get to a hospital that can maybe handle the number of people. If my parents were to get sick, she can't come home, without it being a whole ordeal if she tries to come home, she could get stuck in the middle. You know the benefit of her being in Australia, she's an English speaking person and in an English speaking country. So that just makes for easier communication, when it comes to medical jargon, say she does have to go to a hospital, she's more equipped to understand what the doctors are telling her versus in a country where she can't communicate as well. But it's difficult for me in some ways, because I don't know if I always understood her decision to stay and that provided me with a lot of anxiety. But as I move forward, I'm trying to focus on the current anxieties, the decision has been made. She's there. So for now, I worry just about how things could go wrong from here on out. So for now, she's safe. And I still talk to her all the time. She has an internet connection. So that's a huge plus. But it is difficult. And I think of all the people I know, she's potentially in the most difficult situation.
Ashley: I think that what you have brought up here and like one of the reasons I wanted to talk about it, is because I think this is a dynamic that is playing out in a lot of people's lives right now. That can be really stressful, obviously.
Rachel: Yeah, and I think that wraps kind of back into what I was discussing with a lot of my friendships earlier, I have some friends that don't take the stay at home orders as seriously as I believe they should. And they're making decisions I would not make in my day to day. And that doesn't make them bad friends, or necessarily bad people. But I do struggle in reconciling their choices with what I would choose. And adapting to maybe being more open-minded, being more sympathetic, just reevaluating my own psyche, and how I view each person in my life and how I treat them.
Ashley: I think that's really great. One of the things that I've been encouraging across the board is having patience with other people. Like I am just trying to really live in the patience that I do have. I am not a patient person by nature, and if my mom listens to the podcast, you will definitely agree with that. But I've been really trying to just sit and be patient and be understanding and be empathetic to other people. Because I think about the frenetic, low level background statics, that is my anxiety for me all the time. And I imagine, okay, whoever I'm talking to whoever I'm talking about, whoever I'm like trying to communicate with, that's frustrating me, is also dealing with this right now. And that's not easy. I know, it's not easy because I'm doing it. So I want to be as forgiving as I can. And as I want other people to be of me, which, you know, is not easy, but we're doing it. So a big thing for me right now, and I know for you too, like we're both still working at our full time jobs. And a lot of people have been talking about, oh, like all of this extra free time. All of this like spare time and, you know, if you're a student, maybe you have some spare time if you're, you know, otherwise sort of furloughed perhaps that spare time also causes a lot of anxiety about financial issues, but maybe you have spare time. But then on the other side, I'm still working my 40 plus hours a week. And then I'm also having to deal with all of the anxiety and all the issues around like trying to be productive during your pandemic. And that's been a real stressor for me that I did not expect.
Rachel: Yeah, you feel like ‘oh, I have all this free time, I should be more productive.’ But I'm not all the time, as productive as I anticipated. And then feeling like you're not matching or meeting your potential, I guess, of what you could be doing provides anxiety in itself. And I actually had a friend point something out to me that really helped quell that particular feeling, which is just showing me Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Which is to say that, you know, that the health and security and safety of your family is the second level up. And right now, it's arguable that we're not meeting that second level of needs. And so you really can't meet these other needs of self actualization and, you know, great learning, education without meeting that underneath layer. So that actually, just pointing that out to me, changed a lot of thought and how I was viewing my own productivity and feeling just a little bit more relief about it.
Ashley: That does help. I do not want to just have talked about all the sad and scary things that are happening in the world. So I am a big advocate for looking at the sad and scary emotions head on. I feel really strongly about that. But we are a professional network. We're here to help you. I'm very strongly in favor of considering it to be our job as a professional network to help you get through this in whatever way we can. For the podcast, right now, that's going to be self care and coping mechanisms. And Rachel and I have gotten together a list of the ones we've been using. We'd love to hear from you guys on Twitter, on Facebook, whatever social media platforms you want to use, about what coping mechanisms you've been using, but we've also got some cool sort of resources for learning that might be sort of just enough to make you feel a little bit more productive or just a little bit distracted. And that's how we're gonna wrap up the episode this week. Rachel, do you want to start us off with some of the ones he came up with?
Rachel: Yes, sure. So as a planner, I make a to do list every day. I know that's really not everyone's thing, but it’s just helpful for me. And I typically try to include very small tasks. I was making a more ambitious to do list and I quit that pretty quickly. And so tackling really small home projects has given me just a great feeling of accomplishment. And by really small, I mean like sewing a hole in a sweater I had that needed it for years and years. And maybe I complete one of those tasks a week, and I just feel a great sense of accomplishment that has been keeping me going and more of a day to day sense. I do a lot of exercise or just walking in general. I've started running outside for shorter periods of time because I was finding that the more I stayed inside, the more my anxiety festered. And the more scary outside became. So going on shorter runs that have nothing to do with athleticism, timing, speed have really helped a lot. I've been reading a lot. I struggled to focus sometimes with a lot of the anxiety going on, but reading books that have been a little less intensive, have been awesome for me. I just read Big Little Lies and then I watched the TV series to follow, which was really exciting for me. I've been cooking a lot as well. I'm a pretty bad cook and baker. Never been great at it. So I've been trying to use the time to get creative with a lot of the things I had in my pantry that were not going anywhere anytime soon. And a lot of those things have been really great for me and then seeing my family and friends on FaceTime. Definitely, that's the cherry on top.
Ashley: I am definitely a big reader as well. I've been averaging about a book a week during this work from home stay at home period, though sometimes I'm reading much more sometimes much less. And I am also cooking a lot. I love to bake specifically, but there was a period where I had potentially been exposed. So I was actually quarantining, could not leave my house. And I did a ton of baking while I was in quarantine. For me, I have done a lot of online shopping, not like actually purchasing things, but like, whatever the online equivalent of window shopping is, basically like planning out the way I want to decorate my new apartment.
I bought a Nintendo Switch light. At the time, it felt a little bit silly, but I'm so glad that I have it because it seems like a strange thing to say but it does actually sometimes feel like I'm simulating going outside. When I'm outside and the games I'm playing. I bought Animal Crossing, like 5 million other people. But it has a really strong social component that has almost simulated the way having friends coming over felt. And it's also fostered a lot of relationships and a lot of conversations. So it's my totally justified pandemic splurge. The other big coping mechanism has been virtual happy hours for me. So at work, we have one a week or so. But then I think maybe two weeks ago, I did an eight hour long call with my friends from grad school. That was a wild time, I put in effectively, like a workday on a FaceTime call. But it was super satisfying. It's all these people that I hardly ever get to see. I think we all have time to just sit and talk to each other all at the same time because what else are we going to do on Saturday?
Rachel: Yeah, it's really highlighting the positive aspects of social media and how it can connect people which is something I forget at times about social media. I often feel pretty cynical about a lot of different aspects of it, but it does really make me feel closer to people when I can't be with them.
Ashley: I want to take some time to talk about some of the resources that we wanted to highlight. So I had a bunch of podcasts. I'm a podcast person, I'm gonna recommend some of them if you're willing to do what I was talking about earlier, and face head on, the emotions that this has been raising for you. ‘Our Plague Year’ has been really good for me and letting me sort of bring up those emotions and look at them in a healthy way but also get that catharsis and feel like I can go back to my day after listening, and also just making me feel less alone and like other people are experiencing this with me. For sort of low stress learning I've been really enjoying ‘Gravy,’ which is podcasts of the Southern Foodways Alliance, ‘Dolly Parton's America,’ which I think a lot of people may have already listened to, but if you haven't, definitely go listen. ‘No Such Thing As A Fish, which is like a research team does it and it's just random facts. It's just a bunch of friends talking about facts. And that's been good for me. And then ‘Revolutions,’ which is just all of the revolutions are kind of a healthy distance. And so it's like yes, I feel comfortable listening to a podcast about the French Revolution right now, because that was a long time ago. Did you want to share some podcast recommendations?
Rachel: Yeah, I keep my list very limited. I've actually cut out a lot of the podcasts I was listening to for the news only because I found it to be very emotional inducing, I think a lot of podcasts for good reason, show you the human side of things, which can just be difficult for me right now. So like ‘The Daily,’ for example, I think it is an incredible podcast, but I really struggle to listen to it right now. So as far as that goes, I've kind of streamlined my podcasts listening to be mostly financial, I've been listening to ‘Planet Money and The Indicator and really just moving with those two, then trying to cut back on just the electronics I use generally. So I've been reading The Economist a lot, I receive the physical magazine, and I really enjoy the information, the succinctness of the writing. So, as far as a magazine goes, I've thought that to be a really great resource. I've also always loved the New Yorker as well. And I find it to be a good resource in times like this as well, just more longer form stuff, a little bit more in depth, and then getting a lot of my day today from my job, which is a local news station.
Ashley: For sure. I think you're very right about limiting screen time. That's one of the self care rules that I'm trying to impose. Because I do feel worse. I spend all day looking at screens and it’s really easy now because like, ‘oh, I want to connect with my mom, I want to connect with my friends.’ And that involves another screen even though I've just spent like most of the day looking at a different screen. And so I think just like finding ways to avoid looking at screens wherever possible is a big plus. Something I've also been getting a lot of positive feelings and like, a lot of hope from is the community aid community support networks that have been set up, you know, buildings, making lists of people who might need help, who might be immunocompromised, who might not be able to go out and get their own groceries here in D.C., we have a community tip jar. So all of the restaurant and bar employees who aren't currently making that tip money have basically a big city-wide tip jar that people are putting money in so that they can do things like buy groceries. That kind of stuff makes me feel like we're gonna make it through this and we're still going to be okay. To your point about you know, just getting information and getting news. I signed up for a really interesting science informed update that gets sent to my email every day. And it’s called Corona Comments. And it's basically just you know, the science behind all of the headlines that you've been reading usually has some really great, some really great information from someone who knows what they're talking about and can give you actual facts. And it's also run by a woman. And so I want to definitely boost that up in a time where sometimes women experts’ voices aren't being heard. So I talked about one of my self care recommendations, which is limit screen time. Another one I would say is to stay off Twitter, don’t log on to Twitter. That's, that one's maybe just for me.
Rachel: Yeah, Twitter has been super difficult for me as well. And sometimes in my lowest lows I feel like I find myself logging on and it's almost like picking a scab. It's never helpful. I'm never getting the best information I could be, I'm never leaving feeling more informed, I'm never leaving feeling informed, disciplined, but hopeful. Whereas I think there are a lot of resources that are informative and hopeful. And Twitter's just not in that place for me right now.
Ashley: The Women in Foreign Policy podcast is united on this front, don't go to Twitter. A couple of other things I would recommend, I love journaling. I love writing things down and just like if it's on paper, it doesn't have to be in my head. So that feels good. And exercise. Rachel, you talked about running, I do yoga. Planet Fitness here in the States is recording their workouts and also livecasting workouts to Facebook. I'll be honest, I'm not sure how easily access that is outside of the States. Reaching out to friends, reaching out to family, whoever it is that you know, loves you and cares about you, reach out to those people and not just to check on them, but also to let them know how you're doing. Because they care about you. So they're going to want to know, I guess my, my final self care tip here is just like, figure out what really matters to you right now and focus on that. If you haven't worn a bra or pants with a waistband and is that a big deal? For me? The answer is no. For some people, maybe the answer is yes. And that's okay. But make that distinction for yourself. And then go ahead and just forgive yourself for the things that aren't important.
Rachel: A final self care tip for me would be getting out of the house every day for a quick walk. And it could just be 15 minutes, and a shower. I find those two things to be particularly calming. This could be very personal, but those two pieces of a day in conjunction for me could call them any terrible, horrible issue, at least for the moment. And that's really how I'm trying to get by, is moment by moment.
Ashley: Aren't we all? I think that brings us to the end of our podcast for this month. I want to thank everyone who joined us this month, I know that it has been an absolutely wild like, six weeks to three months, depending on where you're living. And I do want to acknowledge the thing that has been our reality here in the U.S. for the past month has been the reality in Italy for much longer, and, and even longer in places like China. So part of the pain of that is that it's global. There's nowhere you can go to get away from it. But also part of the great thing about this is that we're all there for each other. We all know how everyone else is feeling what we're all experiencing, and we can be empathetic in that way. And I think that's really important. We really value your contributions. We would love to hear what you have to say either about this episode or any other episode. If you want to tweet with us, email us, leave us messages on Instagram, send smoke signals, whatever works. Mostly we just wanted to be there for you guys right now. And a lot of public health officials are busy. This was going to be an episode talking to a bunch of public health people and women who work in public health. Clearly that didn't work out. But we didn't want to leave you without a podcast for this month. So to wrap us up, some of the other members of the women in foreign policy organization are going to talk to you for just a little while about their own self care tips.
Lucie Goulet: This is Lucy. I'm the Founder of Women in Foreign Policy. I hope you found this episode and Ashley and Rachel's advice really helpful. And at Women in Foreign Policy we're here to help you whether it's through a podcast episode like this one, or with a series of events we've got scheduled for now going into the summer. I wanted to share a bit about how I've been living this lockdown. So I'm in London which we've been in lockdown for just about a month now. And I found that I have ways of dealing with stress, which I did not quite expect. Like, for instance, I am really on top of my laundry because I kind of feel like this is one thing I can do. And I guess that's one of the hard things about COVID-19 and the pandemic has been the uncertainty but I can do my laundry, I can do my ironing like this is very satisfying, and it's also very visible. And another thing I have found is that I have been returning to books and TV series I've previously read and watched and loved. And I think that part of it is because it's comfort, but I also think that it has to do with not wanting to be confronted with a world which has been out there, which I don't believe that we are returning exactly to and even after this is over or whichever way we get out of this lockdown. So these are my two key ways to sort of manage the tiny things I can do like laundry and also going back to things with some certainty that are not tainted by the lockdown, which for me means like books and series I have seen read and loved before.
Krithiga Narayanan: Hello, everyone. This is Krithiga Narayanan and I'm a journalist based in India. I'm also the deputy editor of Women in Foreign Policy. The world as we know has ceased to exist due to lockdown measures to contain COVID-19. It is human nature to hope and we still do hope that things will be back to what it used to be. But, there is this very real possibility that things will never be the same again. Hence, first of all, we all need to accept this and work towards adapting our lives and lifestyles to this changing world. In the chaos surrounding us, it is important that we first take care of ourselves, our mental and physical health should be a priority. We should make conscious efforts to stay connected with our friends and family and also keep ourselves active. There is also this great pressure for everyone to be productive at all times. Social media is filled with images and videos of people cooking, cleaning, working out and more. Hence, it is also important to understand that this is not a productivity contest. Not doing anything at all and just relaxing our mind and body is also okay. In these uncertain times, it is important that everyone should stand in solidarity and overcome this difficulty with confidence. Together, anything is possible and above all never lose hope. There is light at the end of this tunnel, just keep going.
Ashley: I hope this episode was useful to everyone or got you some kind of emotional fulfillment, whatever you needed. Maybe it was some catharsis. Please subscribe to our newsletter, the Women in Foreign Policy newsletter if that's something that interests you, if you haven't done so already. We're sending out resources right now about things like getting a job or looking for openings, all of that stuff. We're trying to address it as best we can. I don't actually know what our next episode is going to be because I feel like we're having to roll with the punches right now in the world that we're all living in. But when I know you guys will know, I will be sure that we keep you up to speed. We're going to do our best here on the podcast team to make sure that you're not without a podcast on any given month that you're not supposed to be. Hopefully everyone is staying safe, making good choices. Please follow public health guidance in your country, city or other municipality of residents in follow the organization's Twitter @WomeninFP. And I know it's a really tough time, so definitely please do not donate to us if you can't afford to do so. But if you can, please consider supporting us via PayPal at Lucy Goulet or on Patreon at Women in Foreign Policy. We are an all volunteer team so that means your support goes even further. We'd love to work with you and put into it without listeners like you. Thank you all so much and we'll talk to you again. Bye!
Cheery Monday Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
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